View Full Version : NEW Service: Category Bubbles!
DesignExtend-MSI
06-16-07, 03:01 AM
DesignExtend.com now offers a service that gives small business MIVA Merchant stores a leg up on competition. Category Bubbles allows you to provide on-demand info on products. Shoppers can mouse over the product thumbnail and instantly view details.
If you use the Netflix service, you'll recognize the similar functionality - one that currently is primarily put in service on big dog sites. The 100% dynamic display takes your MIVA Merchant store one step closer to looking like you're spending the big bucks.
Read More Info & View Demo Page (http://www.designextend.com/page/miva/PROD/category-bubbles)
leslienord
06-16-07, 12:51 PM
Yeah - tooltips (http://extranet.miva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7329) are really cool. I did something similar for Hexco Academic (http://www.hexco.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Hexco&Category_Code=NSB). I didn't pass as many variables - just the shortened product description.
anythingformycel.com
06-16-07, 08:56 PM
It's funny that you posted this we are looking for that right now.
The page you linked to says this only supports version 4 of Miva. Is this correct or as error as I hope? I run version 5
Also, do you have to use your category page template module? If does this module support sub-categories of parent categories?
Thanks,
The tool tip Leslie referred to in the second post uses bubbles/balloons. It is for version 5.x. It is not a service. You do it yourself, which is very easy. 5.x is much easier to work with than Merchant 4.x, as you already have the page template control built in. What are you specifically trying to do in Merchant 5.x, simple balloons or complex tool tips with multiple elements?
leslienord
06-16-07, 09:05 PM
Bill has updated the Tool Kit module docs (http://www.emporiumplus.com/v5/balloon.txt) to include the how to do this with MM5.
Adam - FMM
06-16-07, 10:59 PM
It's funny that you posted this we are looking for that right now.
The page you linked to says this only supports version 4 of Miva. Is this correct or as error as I hope? I run version 5
Also, do you have to use your category page template module? If does this module support sub-categories of parent categories?
Thanks,
Hi,
Yea right now it is just version 4 with CPT. When I get more time I'll work it out for Version 5.
The tooltips thing is a great easy way to get a similar effect. The version I made, I did to keep the "bubble" in one spot and as you may notice, flip it left or right to keep it within the bounds of the page. Also, and I should probably update the product description to reflect this, part of the service is designing / implementing custom bubble containers to match the site.
Hmm... looks very nice, Pamela! The only thing I'd say that I don't really like about it is that the javascript is very intrusive, but other than that, it looks very cool.
Adam - FMM
06-16-07, 11:33 PM
Intrusive in some way more than any javascript is? The scripts themselves are pretty ordinary, standard right from dreamweaver / dw exentension exchange in fact. Used for years by thousands of sites.
Intrusive in some way more than any javascript is? The scripts themselves are pretty ordinary, standard right from dreamweaver / dw exentension exchange in fact. Used for years by thousands of sites.
That's precisely why I don't use dreamweaver javascripts. The word I should have used was obtrusive. Javascript doesn't need to be obtrusive. I don't want my (x)html to know anything about the javascript that enhances it.
I hope I didn't sound like I thought this was a bad script. Not at all. It works very well. I think she did a very nice job on it. I would not use it because I am perhaps overly **** about my html being as clean and semantic as possible. I don't like all of the onmouseovers and onclicks and all of those events crowding my html when I can simply apply events to elements with the DOM.
I anyone have a zoom and multi view feature?
leslienord
06-17-07, 02:25 PM
I anyone have a zoom and multi view feature?
wag - try posting this question in either the MM4 or MM5 forum - depending on which version you are using.
anythingformycel.com
06-17-07, 09:11 PM
DesignExtend.com now offers a service that gives small business MIVA Merchant stores a leg up on competition. Category Bubbles allows you to provide on-demand info on products. Shoppers can mouse over the product thumbnail and instantly view details.
If you use the Netflix service, you'll recognize the similar functionality - one that currently is primarily put in service on big dog sites. The 100% dynamic display takes your MIVA Merchant store one step closer to looking like you're spending the big bucks.
Read More Info & View Demo Page (http://www.designextend.com/page/miva/PROD/category-bubbles)
My question was do you have this only for version 4 of Miva? And if so, do you have any plans for Miva 5? :confused:
I'm searching for <div> availability like Netflix has for our product descriptions. Example: on the product lists for a sub-category on mouse over would be a description of the product. Does anyone know where I can get a module for version 5?
Also, does anyone know of any modules (besides Category Template Manager - v5 (http://www.mivacentral.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=m&Product_Code=SS-CTGYTEMPLATES5)) that supports having sub-categories of sub-categories or parent categories.
I already e-mailed the creator of Category Master v5 - New Features! (http://www.mivacentral.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=m&Product_Code=STL-CATMASTER)and said this module doesn't
Did you look at this thread (http://extranet.miva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7329) that Leslie posted? You can do tool tips in mm5 with the Tool Kit and this script (http://www.dhtmlgoodies.com/index.html?whichScript=bubble_tooltip). There are instructions for it in the Tool Kit docs on the Emporium Plus website.
leslienord
06-17-07, 10:33 PM
My question was do you have this only for version 4 of Miva? And if so, do you have any plans for Miva 5? :confused:
I already e-mailed the creator of Category Master v5 - New Features! (http://www.mivacentral.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=m&Product_Code=STL-CATMASTER)and said this module doesn't
From the service description:
This installation requires the OpenUI and Category Page Templates and is only available for Miva Merchant Version 4 at this time.
Note 2 things - 1 - it's a service not a module - Design Extend will modify the Category Page Templates to create this effect. 2 - it's only available for MM4 at this time.
Adam - FMM
06-18-07, 08:03 PM
The only thing that is preventing me from releasing it for V5 right now is the bit where the bubbles flip one way or the other depending on which side of the screen your mouse is at (so the bubbles don't go past the site boundries). Doing that requires a little bit of scripting / math so the screen knows which one to present. Basically just the need to keep a count of the number of products on the screen and apply the MOD operator to it and then a conditional, etc.
I admit my SMT knowledge isn't world class but unless I have missed something, SMT for the cat page is incapable of that. I don't think bill's toolkit has all the ability either (though it is quite handy for a lot of other things). Past that, there's sebenza's cat template manager but I don't think that can help either. I am open to suggestions.
adam - you could just as easily find your point on the screen with javascript, subtract it by the width of the screen to get how much space you have (to the left or right) then see if that space is too small to open it to the right and if so, open it to the left. The way you are talking about doing it sounds prone to bugs anyway.
Adam - FMM
06-18-07, 08:13 PM
I try not to rely on javascript when a non jscript solution is available. But so far for V5 there isn't one.
What bugs do you think a simple product count and MOD calculation are going to be prone to, please?
When you are ALREADY using javascript for a feature, what purpose does holding out on an implementation within that feature? That makes no sense.
What bugs do you think a simple product count and MOD calculation are going to be prone to, please?
If I understand you correctly, you want to tell the javascript to open on the left if the product is in the last column. I guess it really wouldn't be prone to bugs (I guess I wasn't thinking correctly), but it would require that you know how many columns are going across a page. This, to me is an unnecessary restriction.
How come you can't edit posts in this thread??
Correction on the above post:
When you are ALREADY using javascript for a feature, what purpose does holding out on an implementation within that feature have?
The tool kit can keep track of the incremental number of the current product as you display the screen. An example of a counter is at http://www.pinemporium.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PLST&Store_Code=PE
Adam - FMM
06-18-07, 08:28 PM
When you are ALREADY using javascript for a feature, what purpose does holding out on an implementation within that feature? That makes no sense.
Because doing as much as possible of it in mivascript or some server side language is generally easier and works for all browsers right out of the gate. Make sense?
If I understand you correctly, you want to tell the javascript to open on the left if the product is in the last column. I guess it really wouldn't be prone to bugs (I guess I wasn't thinking correctly), but it would require that you know how many columns are going across a page. This, to me is an unnecessary restriction.
Right, it is not prone to bugs. I figured you typed that before thinking about it. Also, the programming is capable of finding the number of columns in use in Category page templates all on its own.
I'm assuming it is not on purpose, but maybe try to avoid spreading uncertainty and doubt on announcement threads unless you have actual evidence? If you wish to discuss this further and voice your concerns, please PM me.
Also, the programming is capable of finding the number of columns in use in Category page templates all on its own.
Really? What if I'm using float: left in a fluid width site? How will your server-side code then know how many columns I have?
I apologize for any uncertainty or doubt I have spread. I will not say anything else.
DesignExtend-MSI
06-18-07, 11:34 PM
Really? What if I'm using float: left in a fluid width site? How will your server-side code then know how many columns I have?
I apologize for any uncertainty or doubt I have spread. I will not say anything else.
If you're using Category Page Templates (http://www.designextend.com/page/miva/PROD/BROK_CTGYTEMPLATES) (which the service requires) then it WILL know what columns are being used. Keep in mind that this service is for usage on an MM dynamic category page using the template module.
I apologize, Pamela, I was not at all trying to say your service was not good. It looks very nice. I am withdrawing from this thread.
Right, it is not prone to bugs.
OK, having thought about that method on the drive home, my original intuition was correct. Here are the two cases I thought of that would cause this method not to work properly:
What if the bubble is wider than the columns? Now your bubble needs to pop up to the left even if it's on the second-to-last column. Or possibly even the third-to-last. No way to know.
You are assuming that the browser window is at maximum. What if it is only 650px wide and the full layout is 800px? Once again your bubble is going to open into a portion of the browser window that is unable to be seen.I know I said I wouldn't say anything more, but I had a brainfart when you asked me what bugs it was prone to (I knew there was something about that methodology that threw a red flag, but I couldn't remember what it was).
If you verified there was enough room to open on the right with javascript, you would not run into any of these issues (unless of course the browser window was too small to open it on the left as well). Using this method provides much more flexibility, and that is what I am generally after when developing any type of software.
Once again, I must stress I never said and still am not saying that Pamela's service is bad. It is clean, relatively small (in javascript size) and it is easy on the eyes. In fact, if somebody were to ask me if somebody had this service, I would recommend this to them without any regret.
DesignExtend-MSI
06-19-07, 06:44 PM
What if the bubble is wider than the columns? Now your bubble needs to pop up to the left even if it's on the second-to-last column. Or possibly even the third-to-last. No way to know.
Did you look at the example? It does just that.
You are assuming that the browser window is at maximum. What if it is only 650px wide and the full layout is 800px? Once again your bubble is going to open into a portion of the browser window that is unable to be seen.
First, our example page is a popup, so it's not even close to 650, but just the same, if the browser window itself requires scrolling left and right, what's the problem? We're not "assuming" anything. The scripting can certainly be tailored to individual site needs.
If you verified there was enough room to open on the right with javascript, you would not run into any of these issues (unless of course the browser window was too small to open it on the left as well). Using this method provides much more flexibility, and that is what I am generally after when developing any type of software.
I think what you're generally after is extensive criticism that doesn't reflect exactly what *you* want. Simply put, the script works, even on adjustable window sizing. Yes, you could get to the point where the popup drops off to the right, but the fact is that wouldn't happen unless the screen was sized down to the point that the shopper would be scrolling left and right just to view the page. No one can expect a site to flow 100% perfect if you can't even view the entire site in the window.
You're also missing the point that the "bubbles" can be sized narrowly to accomodate this - you're pinpointing so-called faults in a mere example. Even if you size that window down to nearly nothing, yes, the bubbles will be cut off, but who on earth would expect them to be viewable if you can't even view a standard portion of the page?
Adam - FMM
06-20-07, 10:16 PM
First, our example page is a popup, so it's not even close to 650, but just the same, if the browser window itself requires scrolling left and right, what's the problem? We're not "assuming" anything. The scripting can certainly be tailored to individual site needs.
I think what you're generally after is extensive criticism that doesn't reflect exactly what *you* want. Simply put, the script works, even on adjustable window sizing. Yes, you could get to the point where the popup drops off to the right, but the fact is that wouldn't happen unless the screen was sized down to the point that the shopper would be scrolling left and right just to view the page. No one can expect a site to flow 100% perfect if you can't even view the entire site in the window.
You're also missing the point that the "bubbles" can be sized narrowly to accomodate this - you're pinpointing so-called faults in a mere example. Even if you size that window down to nearly nothing, yes, the bubbles will be cut off, but who on earth would expect them to be viewable if you can't even view a standard portion of the page?
I see my employer beat me to it.
I was merely going to show this, which is what a customer asked me to replicate a while back:
http://www.netflix.com/BrowseSelection?lnkctr=nmhbs
Now resize your window down to 650 wide or whatever and start mousing over the thumbnails.
Heavens to Mergatroid! What's this? The bubbles for some of the thumbnails are getting clipped by the browser edges??! Those netflix programming hacks! If only that slipshod netflix company had the budget to hire web programmers who knew what they were doing. Heads must roll!
You crack me up, Luke.
Since I'm getting ribbed by two folks now, I guess I am obligated to retort.
Both of you fail to realize my point. I strive for perfection--accessibility, standards-compliance, and flexibility when I put together ANY piece of software. When I see a solution that could be done a little bit better, I point it out. Like I've already said, I don't think this is a bad service. Quite the opposite. I simply would not use it because if you look at any sites I've put together, they validate (or come as close as they can... some-times due to client editing, etc. it is out of my hands), the javascript is 100% decoupled from the html, and it the html is semantically correct. I do not like littering it with hundreds of onmouseovers and onmouseouts when these can easily be achieved via the DOM with javascript. This is my preference. If that's not for you, ignore me.
Also, do you think just because netflix does it, that means it's the way I should do it? I don't. In fact, I think netflix's website could use a lot of improvement. If I disable javascript on their website, there are a few features that no longer work, yet they still show up. Such as the my name showing up when I'm logged in with an arrow--a link that appears to be clickable, yet when I click it nothing happens, because they've coupled their javascript into their html too much.
Brandon MUS
06-21-07, 01:15 AM
I just want to poke my head in and say I'm on Luke's side (if there are sides), but this discussion shouldn't be in the "Announcement" thread. Yet another reason I agree with Bruce (http://extranet.miva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9702).
Also, since I'm already in here disrupting a thread, Netflix uses font tags on their site... 'nuff said.
I completely agree that this should not be in an announcement thread. If a moderator would like to fork this thread, that would be awesome.
DesignExtend-MSI
06-21-07, 02:11 AM
Since I'm getting ribbed by two folks now, I guess I am obligated to retort.
Both of you fail to realize my point. I strive for perfection--accessibility, standards-compliance, and flexibility when I put together ANY piece of software. When I see a solution that could be done a little bit better, I point it out. Like I've already said, I don't think this is a bad service. Quite the opposite. I simply would not use it because if you look at any sites I've put together, they validate (or come as close as they can... some-times due to client editing, etc. it is out of my hands), the javascript is 100% decoupled from the html, and it the html is semantically correct. I do not like littering it with hundreds of onmouseovers and onmouseouts when these can easily be achieved via the DOM with javascript. This is my preference. If that's not for you, ignore me.
Luke:
First, I'm not ribbing you. However, if you're going to post incorrect info, or info I find not to be an actual failure, I'm going to rebut.
Secondly, you might want to be careful about commenting about 100% accuracy, because even your own sites (and your blog) have some discrepancies here and there. None are huge issues, but I don't think ANY of us can claim to be "perfect" in our practices. I've yet to find a single site on the web that is 100% cross platform and error-free.
Can you please point out to me where I mentioned my sites were 100% accurate?
DesignExtend-MSI
06-21-07, 04:14 AM
Can you please point out to me where I mentioned my sites were 100% accurate?
Can you point out where you didn't allude that, in your multitude of posts? Comments like 100% decoupling, validating (unless client edited). Whether it's your intention or not, your posts come across as you saying you do everything "right". Read your last post as an outsider and you should clearly see what I mean.
Am I open to comments and criticism? Sure I am. But am I open to repetitive fingerpointing of problems from someone whose own examples are not as perfect as they can be in a thread posted initially to simply announce a service? No, I'm not. I'm not interested in a tit-for-tat about who's got the bigger bones. I never claimed perfection, but I also don't claim stupidity. Anyone working with ANY such scripting should already know that there are always pitfalls to certain features, including JS, Flash, browser-proprietary components, etc.
My husband can't navigate MySpace.com - and I don't particularly like it myself, but I do see why they coded things certain ways, and same for Netflix - you might not like their feature, and yeah, it's got issues, but I've got scores of friends and family who adore the bubble feature because it's a time saver.
Do I think every online store can use the bubble feature? Not at all. And I'll tell them so. It's dependent upon product line, target audience and many other factors. But I do stand behind its ability to work in ideal situations. And it is just an additional feature - the use of a site and obtaining information is not prohibited if the feature does not load. You went beyond finding issues with aesthetics, which are really an individual's choice anyway.
Please note that I'm not bothered by the questions, even the concerned ones, and even in this very thread. We've got nothing to hide about any pros and cons (as there always are) to what we develop. But there's a way to word such questions and comments. I've been working in this specific field quite a long time, as has Adam and many others on these forums, and I think we're all due a certain mode of respect, especially from folks who even recently claimed that MM itself is essentially doo-doo. Part of that respect is using a developer/coder forum or PM for discussing such issues, and realizing that we all have our own levels of knowledge. Or, at the very least, using common courtesy when discussion potential issues.
With that, unlike others who "come back later" after thinking, I'm bowing out of this specific conversation publicly. If you'd like to discuss said issues offlist, garnering the same respect I give, feel free to contact me.
PicturesqueWeb
06-21-07, 12:24 PM
Netflix is a huge success. They have lots of bubbles all over the place. People seem to like it enough to keep renting from them. They make lots of money. I want to make lots of money. Standards be damned.....give me money. Good luck Pamela on a cool feature that I'm sure many sites could benefit from. We need more features like this to keep Miva an exciting tool to use.
Me saying that I strive for perfection is hardly saying I "do everything right". As I already stated, I prefer to follow standards. Repetitive fingerpointing? Please... all I said was I don't care for your choice of javascript.
As for me calling Miva "doodoo", that isn't anywhere near correct. I've definitely expressed publicly that I don't care for Miva as a company, and I think that mivascript is a little wacky, but I've never called it doodoo.
I too am done with this conversation.
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